Narayana Murthy and T.V. Mohandas Pai Discuss India’s Growth Story, Corporate Governance & Entrepreneurship in 3one4 Capital’s New Video Series ‘The Record’

The inaugural episodes of the video series, in association with Catamaran, aim to inspire change through ideas and life journeys of India’s veteran industry leaders

3one4 Capital, Bengaluru-based early-stage venture capital firm, announces the official launch of 'The Record,' its latest video series. This insightful series is positioned to provide exceptional insights into the spheres of entrepreneurship and leadership. Notably, the inaugural episodes of 'The Record,' in collaboration with Catamaran, feature Narayana Murthy and T.V. Mohandas Pai, underscoring the series' significance within the corporate landscape, offering a platform for inspiring dialogues and meaningful ideas.

'The Record' by 3one4 Capital aims to highlight the transformational journeys of India's industry leaders and to explore the strategies through which they navigated challenges on their paths to large outcomes. This series offers a distinctive opportunity for audiences to immerse themselves in the fundamental elements of thriving entrepreneurship in India, the dynamics of effective leadership, the complexities of corporate governance, principles for positive-sum market expansion, the forces guiding India's growth trajectory, and much more.

The collaboration with Catamaran, the esteemed family office of Narayana Murthy, adds a significant dimension to the inaugural episodes of 'The Record.' Catamaran is widely known in the industry and has played a pivotal role in fostering successful ventures. This collaboration underscores the commitment of both organizations to empower the entrepreneurial and leadership ecosystem in India.

Commenting at the launch of The Record, Narayana Murthy said, “Catamaran is happy to partner with 3one4 Capital on this inaugural episode. History has a lot to teach us, and candid dialogue on platforms like this will help reveal the intricate journey of entrepreneurship and leadership.”

T.V. Mohandas Pai said, “The Record is an intentional initiative by 3one4 Capital to support a dialogue on governance, startup growth, managing the path to building large institutions, and many other matters related to the transformational journey of entrepreneurship. The inaugural episodes of The Record with Narayana Murthy on corporate governance, building a constructive board, building great teams, and ensuring that corporates are run with the highest standards of governance and ethics will go a long way in helping entrepreneurs across the ecosystem. What Narayana Murthy brings to the dialogue is very rich experience and standard setting, steps that he's taken in building a legacy at Infosys. It's important for us to learn from the best entrepreneurs India has produced over time, and I look forward to more such dialogues soon.”

Pranav Pai, the Founding Partner of 3one4 Capital, introduced the launch of 'The Record, "We have designed ‘The Record’ to support young Indians and the wider startup and corporate ecosystem in their search for focused insights from industry leaders who have successfully built some of India's most distinguished enterprises. We aspire for this video series to serve as a compass for the country's entrepreneurs and operators as they build towards sustainable and inclusive technological and socio-economic advancement."

As 'The Record' continues its episodic releases, 3one4 Capital remains committed to hosting similar conversations with a diverse group of industry leaders from across the nation. These discussions will delve into their unique journeys, sharing experiences, challenges, and achievements as valuable learning opportunities. Each upcoming episode will grant access to the strategic frameworks and transformative ideas that have driven these individuals to success. The collaboration with Catamaran in the inaugural episodes reflects 3one4 Capital's dedication to offering viewers an exceptional opportunity to tap into the collective wisdom of these industry experts in the future.

The first episode was released on October 26, 2023, on 3one4 Capital and Catamaran's website and social channels.

Teaser 

Episode 1

About 3one4 Capital

3one4 Capital is an early-stage venture capital firm based in Bangalore, India.

The firm works in select market categories and in the intersection of adjacencies that are large, growing, and ready for unique products and services. The themes pursued are SaaS, Enterprise & SMB Digitization, Fintech, Consumer Internet, and Digital Health, with a focus on areas such as machine-driven actionable intelligence services, climate tech, ambient intelligence technologies, logistics and distribution, IP-led deep tech, and full stack engineering solutions.

3one4’s investments are biased towards companies exploiting technology to create, grow, or dominate large markets in India. The firm also invests a portion of its capital in global-GTM companies that have feedforward effects into the themes being pursued in India. With a focus on margins and on delivering uncompromised end-user experiences, the firm aims to detect new growth opportunities, manage risk, and return rewarding outcomes to all the stakeholders involved.

3one4 Capital has specialized in utilizing its deep access to strategic corporations and investors in building grounds-up theses that preempt the mainstream while exploiting macro trends. The firm has developed a proprietary sourcing engine to discover the next set of generational companies from the early stage. Once invested, the firm works through a deep involvement strategy with founding teams and subject-matter experts to prioritize and strategize for product-market fit, and then optimize for defensibility and growth in revenue and impact. The firm’s in-house Governance & Business Integrity, Growth & Capital Development, Finance, Research, and Platform teams act as strategic partners to the founders over multiple vectors to amplify the execution, growth, and reach of the portfolio companies.

At 3one4, the team has intentionally built a long-term commitment to responsible investing and to support the evolution of an ecosystem conducive to RI. This active commitment has helped the firm secure the signatory status to the UN PRI, making 3one4 Capital the first Venture Capital signatory from India and the fifth overall asset management firm approved from the country.

3one4 Capital has been ranked by Preqin, a global reference database for asset management, as India’s top performer for two of its funds in its Alternative Assets report. The seed and early-stage funds managed by the firm have been recognized for their performance amongst the India-focused venture capital funds in this Asia Pacific-focused report published in 2021. With industry-leading Net IRRs, 3one4 Capital’s Rising I & Fund II are the top two amongst the best performing India-focused VC funds between the vintage years, 2010-2018.

The firm manages INR 4,100 Cr (USD 510M) of committed capital and a combined portfolio of over 100 investments.

About Catamaran

Catamaran is the family office of Narayana Murthy and is a catalyst for creating innovative enterprises in India. It manages over $1 billion across asset classes. It invests in innovative ideas from passionate and value-based entrepreneurs to help them build successful enterprises. The company partners with respected global corporations to create enduring enterprises in India. Catamaran invests in listed companies catering to large markets, with high standards of corporate governance and the ability to stay resilient across economic cycles.

Japan's Sojitz Corp Acquires Stake in 3one4 Capital, A VC Firm by Mohandas Pai's Sons

Japan’s Sojitz Corporation has signed a contract to invest in Continuum I, a venture fund operated by 3one4 Capital Advisors LLP, a Bangalore-based early-stage venture capital firm by Mohandas Pai's sons -- Pranav Pai and Siddarth Pai.

Sojitz Corporation is a sogo shosha (general trading company) based in Tokyo, Japan that also invests in various sectors and conducts financing activities.

With this investment in 3one4’s venture fund, Sojitz aims to obtain a broad range of information on market trends and promising startups with innovative Artificial Intelligence (AI) and Internet of Things (IoT) technologies.

3one4 Capital has recently raised its second fund with commitments of Rs.250 crore and in last month, it led a $8 million funding round of LoanTap, a Mumbai-based online platform that offers flexible loan products to salaried professionals.

Additionally, Sojitz also plans to open an office in Bangalore, India by April 2019 to partner with startups and create new businesses geared towards Indian and overseas markets. Sojitz plans to use information from Continuum I to enter unexplored business areas as well.

Welcoming the investment, Consul-General of Japan in Bengaluru Takayuki Kitagawa said “This is the first successful case ever since the Ministry of Economy along with JETRO started the Indo-Japan Start-up Hub last May in Bengaluru.”

“Sojitsu, one of the major trading companies in Japan, has now invested in Bengaluru exclusively for the purpose of start-up initiatives. This trend will accelerate other Japanese investors to invest in Bengaluru. This will further be facilitated by the new direct flight from Tokyo to Bengaluru that has been announced recently. The business set-up is now ready to take-off. Even though Japan has been a late comer, we are now catching up fast,” he added.

3one4 Capital launched its first fund of Rs 100 crore in 2016 and has so far invested in more than 40 companies including Faircent.com, OnlineTyari, Tracxn, Charmboard, and YourStory.

Via ~ Redact | Source - NNA.jp, Business Line

QwikSpec, A Real-Estate Site Operations Platform Startup, Raises Rs.3.5 Crores in Pre-Series A Funding

Bengaluru-based QwikSpec, an end-to-end real-estate site operations platform startup, which has consistently delivered significant time & money savings to its customers in the construction industry, has raised Rs. 3.5 crores in funding from a consortium of investors led by Brigade Innovations LLP. Other investors in the consortium include Mohandas Pai, Suhail Rahman - Director Asset Builders, Bobby Reddy of Indus Group, and UAE based private investor M George Oommen.

Founded in January 2015 by Ajith Alexander and Roby Kurien, QwikSpec is a part of first batch of Brigade REAP, an India's first
startup accelerator program to focus on technology innovations in the real estate sector. The startup has earlier raised Rs. 2 crore in angel funding.

Ms. Nirupa Shankar (Read Interview), Director at Brigade Innovations stated that "QwikSpec was one of the 5 companies that was part of the first batch of Brigade’s Real Estate Accelerator Program (REAP). They are solving on-site challenges faced by project teams and are able to deliver tangible savings in time, money and improvements in quality. QwikSpec’s platform brings in transparency and accountability across all stakeholders in the construction process including contractors, sub-contractors and even customers. With Brigade REAP’s domain knowledge and experience in real estate QwikSpec’s value proposition was sharpened significantly helping them improve their conversion rate from 30% to 70% in the 4th month of the program. We believe QwikSpec’s platform will become an imperative for the Real estate fraternity in the new regulatory environment of RERA.”

Mohandas Pai, investing in his personal capacity, said: "The QwikSpec team has utilized their core domain expertise and strategic insights to develop a full-stack toolset for builders to optimize their operations from the bottoms-up. The workforce on-site constitutes nearly 95% of the total employee base in a construction company, while all existing enterprise applications cater to the 5% of the workforce that is off-site. This is the main reason why technology penetration in construction has been historically very low, and workforce productivity in the sector has remained stagnant over the last two decades. With the sector seeing accelerated demand and the need for quality deliverables only increasing, such technology will offer real operational differentiation to its users, reduce costs, improve productivity and reduce time to market. QwikSpec will aim to work with lateral tools to become the center of this exciting universe of technology, and I am looking forward to the possibilities ahead."

QwikSpec was founded by Ajith Alexander and Roby Kurien in January 2015. Ajith worked with Cisco Systems, McKinsey & Co. and Nakheel Group in the past while Roby was associated with Motorola, Kyocera Wireless and Sirf Technologies.

On the company’s growth and expansion plans; Ajith, Co-Founder and Managing Director was quoted as saying “With over 120 projects across the entire lifecycle of construction right from excavation to handover and more than 10 million data-points, we have seen rapid adoption – QwikSpec doubled its monthly revenues in the last 6 months. Our current clients include Tata Housing, Mahindra Lifespaces, Brigade Group, Mantri Developers, Prestige Group, Omkar Developers, Vaswani Group, etc. We will use the investment to significantly ramp up our technology capabilities as also invest in business development and customer acquisition. QwikSpec, being the leader in India, will continue to penetrate in the Indian market before looking at expanding to Middle East and South East Asian markets in the near future.”

Mohandas Pai Backs Darwinbox, MasterCard Invests in Razorpay and Instago Gets $500K

Darwinbox, a human resources software-as-aservice (SaaS) startup, has raised an undisclosed amount; American payments and financial services company MasterCard has invested an undisclosed amount in Bengaluru-based Razorpay; and Intra-city travel application Instago has raised $500,000 from multiple investors.

Mohandas Pai Invests in HR Software Firm Darwinbox

Darwinbox, a human resources software-as-aservice (SaaS) startup, has raised an undisclosed amount in early-stage seed funding led by Mohandas Pai's 3one4 Capital, Endiya Partners and Tracxn Labs.

Launched in August, 2015, Hyderabad-based Darwinbox is a human resources technology and analytics company founded by Jayant Paleti, Rohit Chennamaneni and Chaitanya Peddi. Currently consisting of five modules, Darwinbox plans to use a part of the funds to build more modules and the other towards marketing and sales to expand the product across the country - Mumbai being their next target, as ET reported.

Online Payment Gateway Solution Razorpay Raises Funding from MasterCard

American payments and financial services company MasterCard has invested an undisclosed amount in Bengaluru-based Razorpay, an online payment gateway solution for small and medium enterprises and platforms, reported ET.

The equity-based investment in the company backed by Tiger Global is MasterCard's second investment. In 2013, it had invested in Chicago-headquartered analytics company Mu Sigma.

The company had raised Rs 64 crore from Tiger Global in Series A and Matrix Partners along with multiple angel investors in the seed round. The 33 angel investors include Jeff Huber, senior vice president at Google X; Snapdeal cofounders Kunal Bahl and Rohit Bansal; InMobi cofounders; and former Flipkart chief product officer Punit Soni.

Instago Raises $500K from Multiple Investors

Intra-city travel application Instago that helps users compare prices and book the cheapest mode of transport across different categories including on-demand taxis, autos, public transport and self-drive options has raised $500,000 from multiple investors including angel investor Ramit Sethi of Strongbox Ventures, as per ET report.

Founded in 2015 by Nakul Khanna, Anmol Ahlawat and Aneesh Seth, Instago collates information from multiple transport agencies and commuter generated content for real-time information on different modes of transport. The portal also compiles data through API integration with on-demand transport service providers to provide expected time of arrival and other information to the commuters.

Image Source: ShutterStock

High-Profile Technocrats Team-up To Form Rs 125-crore Fund For Product Startups In India

India's high-profile technocrats and investors including T V Mohandas Pai, Rajiv Mody, Naganand Doraswamy (CEO - TiE-Bangalore) as well as descendents of notable Patni family - Amit and Arihant Patni, have joined hands to form a Rs 125-crore fund, Ideaspring Capital, to back product startups in the country.

The venture fund will invest in early-stage product innovation startups, seed funding of up to Rs 3 crore and subsequent co-investment at series A stage of up to Rs 5 crore, a statement said.

Ideaspring Capital is planning to invest in only 4-6 startups a year and provide high touch 'Startup Assist' programme, it added.

The fund is backed by entrepreneurs and investors, like Mohandas Pai, Naganand Doraswamy, Prashant Deshpande, Sharad Sharma (Co-founder, iSpirt), Ravi Gururaj, Amit Patni and Arihant Patni amongst others.

Ideaspring Capital has raised majority of its investment from Indian investors with Aarin Capital as anchor investor.

"The fund will work with entrepreneurs having deep technical and domain expertise, developing early stage enterprise products in major cities across India," it said.

Intellectual property in the form of algorithms and deep technology will be a key differentiator.

"We see immense growth potential for enterprise product innovation from India and are confident that India's next wave of innovation will come from this space," Doraswamy, Managing Director and CEO of Ideaspring Capital, said.

Key areas the fund will cover include Machine Learning and Deep Learning, Computer Vision and Image Processing, Big Data Analytics, Internet of Things, Augmented and Virtual Reality, HealthTech, FinTech and other such new-age technology.

Through its 'Startup Assist' programme, Ideaspring Capital will help startups to build scale in product management, customer management and building products for a global footprint.

Ideaspring Capital will provide key interventions in aspects that include Business Market fit, product management, customer connects and connect to next level of investors.

In 2015, the total amount of investment in the startup ecosystem stood at USD 5.4 billion, Ideaspring Capital said citing VCCEdge data.

Mumbai-Based Fintech Startup SwitchMe Raises Angel Round of Funding

[caption id="attachment_104487" align="alignnone" width="700"] SwitchMe's Team[/caption]

Mumbai-based SwitchMe has raised an undisclosed amount of funding from a group of investors including Mohandas Pai, Hiro Mashita and Singapore Angel Network. This round was an extension of an earlier round led by 500 Startups, with participation from Rajan Anandan and Ajay Sarupria. The raised funding will be used for strengthening the technology and for extending the service to more cities.

Founded in 2012 by Aditya Mishra and Sourasis Roy, SwitchME services are currently available in Mumbai, Pune, Bengaluru, and Delhi. The startup helps customers switch their home loan to a lower rate of interest from the comfort of their home. A switch to lower rate can save lakhs of rupees but many customers struggle to achieve it because of paperwork and the leg work involved. SwitchMe makes this easy through a combination of its technology and on the ground execution. Its technology finds the better match of lender for the customers as per multiple parameters.

The company claims that customers have saved over Rs 300 crore with SwitchMe. This is across several banks leveraging SwitchMes relationships across the board with both public and private sector lenders.

Aditya worked at TCS in various business roles for a decade before starting SwitchMe. Co-founder Sourasis Roy cut his teeth building a data mining startup before joining up forces. Aditya is an alumnus of IIM Bangalore while Sourasis has a degree in maths and another in Computer science from the Chennai Mathematical Institute.

The startup claims that the customers can save almost 10-30% of their loan amount. For example, Rahul had a home loan from ICICI Bank at 11.5% interest rate. SwitchMe transferred his loan to SBI at an interest rate of 9.55%.

Mumbai-Based Fintech Startup SwitchMe Raises Angel Round of Funding

[caption id="attachment_104487" align="alignnone" width="700"] SwitchMe's Team[/caption]

Mumbai-based SwitchMe has raised an undisclosed amount of funding from a group of investors including Mohandas Pai, Hiro Mashita and Singapore Angel Network. This round was an extension of an earlier round led by 500 Startups, with participation from Rajan Anandan and Ajay Sarupria. The raised funding will be used for strengthening the technology and for extending the service to more cities.

Founded in 2012 by Aditya Mishra and Sourasis Roy, SwitchME services are currently available in Mumbai, Pune, Bengaluru, and Delhi. The startup helps customers switch their home loan to a lower rate of interest from the comfort of their home. A switch to lower rate can save lakhs of rupees but many customers struggle to achieve it because of paperwork and the leg work involved. SwitchMe makes this easy through a combination of its technology and on the ground execution. Its technology finds the better match of lender for the customers as per multiple parameters.

The company claims that customers have saved over Rs 300 crore with SwitchMe. This is across several banks leveraging SwitchMes relationships across the board with both public and private sector lenders.

Aditya worked at TCS in various business roles for a decade before starting SwitchMe. Co-founder Sourasis Roy cut his teeth building a data mining startup before joining up forces. Aditya is an alumnus of IIM Bangalore while Sourasis has a degree in maths and another in Computer science from the Chennai Mathematical Institute.

The startup claims that the customers can save almost 10-30% of their loan amount. For example, Rahul had a home loan from ICICI Bank at 11.5% interest rate. SwitchMe transferred his loan to SBI at an interest rate of 9.55%.

EdTech Startup Oust Labs Receives Seed Funding From Mohandas Pai

Bangalore and California-based Oust Labs, an edtech startup whose gamified platform helps students excel in Indian competitive exams, has raised an undisclosed seed round from T.V.Mohandas Pai, chairman of Manipal Global Education Services and Aarin Capital.

Oust was founded in Cupertino, CA by Shrikant Latkar in Jan 2015. Developed initially by volunteers with a passion for education, Oust has now become the go to platform for students to practice and learn Math, Science and Social Sciences. The company has been running trials of its app in smaller cities of Karnataka since Aug 2015.

"Our goal is to help students to qualify for a better college or job, irrespective of where they are studying right now," said CEO Shrikant, who formerly served as the chief marketing officer at mobile ad network InMobi.

Oust has a total repository of 1.25 Lakh questions across physics, chemistry, maths, and biology subjects, curated by teachers and organized into modules. Students - over 7,000 of them currently - play short 2-minute quizzes that consist of 5 questions on various subjects on their mobile devices., much like the popular app Quiz Up.

"While the challenge of delivering relevant and high--quality online content is being solved by a number of very promising ventures all over the world, there exists a larger fundamental challenge to engage and retain students' attention on a constantly evolving paradigm of mobile and social," said T.V. Mohandas Pai.

For Mohandas Pai, Oust is first startup investment of the year. Earlier to Oust, Pai has made investment in another edtech startup OnlineTyari in September 2015. The most recent investment Pai has made before Oust was Kaaryah in December. Pai has invested in more than dozen startups from his personal capacity since year 2012.

EdTech Startup Oust Labs Receives Seed Funding From Mohandas Pai

Bangalore and California-based Oust Labs, an edtech startup whose gamified platform helps students excel in Indian competitive exams, has raised an undisclosed seed round from T.V.Mohandas Pai, chairman of Manipal Global Education Services and Aarin Capital.

Oust was founded in Cupertino, CA by Shrikant Latkar in Jan 2015. Developed initially by volunteers with a passion for education, Oust has now become the go to platform for students to practice and learn Math, Science and Social Sciences. The company has been running trials of its app in smaller cities of Karnataka since Aug 2015.

"Our goal is to help students to qualify for a better college or job, irrespective of where they are studying right now," said CEO Shrikant, who formerly served as the chief marketing officer at mobile ad network InMobi.

Oust has a total repository of 1.25 Lakh questions across physics, chemistry, maths, and biology subjects, curated by teachers and organized into modules. Students - over 7,000 of them currently - play short 2-minute quizzes that consist of 5 questions on various subjects on their mobile devices., much like the popular app Quiz Up.

"While the challenge of delivering relevant and high--quality online content is being solved by a number of very promising ventures all over the world, there exists a larger fundamental challenge to engage and retain students' attention on a constantly evolving paradigm of mobile and social," said T.V. Mohandas Pai.

For Mohandas Pai, Oust is first startup investment of the year. Earlier to Oust, Pai has made investment in another edtech startup OnlineTyari in September 2015. The most recent investment Pai has made before Oust was Kaaryah in December. Pai has invested in more than dozen startups from his personal capacity since year 2012.

Tax Info Portal TaxSutra Get Funding From Ex-Infosys CFOs

Mumbai-based online startup TaxSutra, a portal providing real-time tax-related information, analysis and insights to corporates and professionals has raised US$160,000 (around INR 1 crore) from former Infosys CFOs V Balakrishnan, TV Mohandas Pai and board members of Infosys.

Taxsutra will use the funds to scale up the company, improve technology and product development.

"Leading corporate boards are struggling with lack of quality information and analysis to mitigate their risks while taking business decisions. TaxSutra provides that critical information backed by a high quality team of founders and professionals," Balakrishnan said.

Founded in January 2011 by media professionals - Arun Giri, Ameya Kunte and Arun Anant, Taxsutra is a B2B subscription-based portal on direct tax, indirect tax, transfer pricing and corporate laws. It provides instant news alerts and incisive analysis on both domestic and international tax.

Giri has previously worked at CNBC18 and UTVi Business News, and Kunte has worked with Ernst & Young (now EY) and PwC while Anant, an engineer and management graduate, has worked at UTV News Ltd, Bennett Coleman & Company Ltd, IRIS Ltd, Lintas Worldwide (Lowe & Partners) and Hindustan Petroleum Corporation Ltd.

"We have a host of new product launches lined up over the next 12-18 months that will cater to the information/analysis needs of tax/law professionals,” Arun Giri & Ameya Kunte, founders, TaxSutra Services, said in a joint statement.

TaxSutra claims that over 5,000 tax professionals receive its daily alerts. Its subscribers include Fortune 500 companies, leading MNCs, tax firms, law firms and the regulators.

HomeLane Gets $4.5 Million Funding From Sequoia Capital & Others

Bengaluru-based home solution startup HomeLane has raised $4.5-million led by US venture capital firm Sequoia Capital. Notably, HomeLane is just 8-month-old startup and has managed to funding and thats too from VC like sequoia capital.

The fund-raise also saw a personal investments by billionaire investor and Manipal Education and Medical Group (MEMG) boss Ranjan Pai and Mohandas Pai, a former board member of Infosys and chairman of Manipal Global Education.

HomeLane is already backed and promoted by storied entrepreneur duo Ganesh Krishnan and Meena Ganesh. the husband-wife duo behind some of India’s most innovative, technology-led ventures including Portea Medical, BigBasket, BlueStone,avagmah and TutorVista. TutorVista was acquired by US and UK listed education leader Pearson for $213M in January 2011.

HomeLane is interior design and manufacturing provider. It offers personalized design service to customers at no extra cost where an experienced panel of interior designers works with customers to customize designs for houses. With more than 1000 projects delivered across the country, HomeLane has huge experience in helping customers build their dream home.

Founded just 8 months back by former Pearson India CEO Srikanth Iyer, along with former colleague Rama Harinath, HomeLane is a technology interfaced hybrid startup that supplies customizable kitchens, wardrobes and entertainment units. Unlike other online furniture e-tailers, who offer a range of movable furniture, HomeLane's focus is on modular, fixed furniture that has an average billing value of Rs 5 lakh upwards.

HomeLane has seen sales grow at 100% month-on-month just six months after launching operations in Bengaluru, said Srikanth Iyer, CEO, of HomeLane. The fund-raise, he said, would be used to expand in 10 cities over the next six months. HomeLane is looking to onboard 10,000 interior designers from around the country. "We would like to provide passionate designers the opportunity to work with HomeLane providing them part-time, work-from-home opportunities to augment their income," Srikanth said.